From the Stumpers email list, information on the quote about the dissolution of youth
as reported by Socrates, Plato, Aristotle or some other ancient Roman or Greek philosopher:
To: Ed Borasky ,
State Library Reference ,
stumpers-list@crf.cuis.edu
Subject: RE: Aristotle or Plato & juv delinq
From: Dennis Lien
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 12:16:12 -0500
Cc: aslref@arkstar.asl.lib.ar.us
At 09:19 PM 8/3/00 -0700, Ed Borasky wrote:
>You might want to check the standard references on bogus quotations. There
>is a quite famous one that I remember seeing many years ago, about dissolute
>youth, that was written as though it were true today but is quoted from
>Socrates or Plato. My recollection is that it is in fact not from an ancient
>Greek at all but of modern origin. This is very likely the quotation your
>patron remembers.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: State Library Reference [mailto:aslref@asl.lib.ar.us]
>Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 1:09 PM
>To: stumpers-list@crf.cuis.edu
>Cc: aslref@arkstar.asl.lib.ar.us
>Subject: Aristotle or Plato & juv delinq
>
>
>
>
>The patron has a request for a quotation from Socrates, Aristotle, or Plato
>about the decline in juvenile delinquency. I have found several comments
>from Aristotle and Plato re youth and the young, but nothing that relates
>specifically to request. Can anybody help?
>Thanks, Elizabeth Danley, Reference, Arkansas State Library, One Capitol
>Mall, Little Rock, AR 72201, (501) 682-2053 aslref@asl.lib.ar.us
>edanley@asl.lib.ar.us
Specifically, I suspect that it's the following (from Stumpers Archives):
*******
This is a section of the document
'gopher_root:[searchidx]stumpers-l_1998-03.txt;26'.
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 01:46:14 +0000
From: Palfgrend
To: "Souders, Marilyn" ,
Subj: Re: ? Socrates Quote
>The Library of Congress' excellent book, _Respectfully Quoted_ (1989), lists
>this quote "thusly" (page 42, quote number 195):
> The children now love luxury; they have bad manners,
> contempt for authority; they allow disrespect for elders and
> love chatter in place of exercise. Children now are tyrants,
> not the servants of their households. They no longer rise
> when eleders enter the room. They contradict their parents,
> chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross
> their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
>
>*About* this quote, this is what LC has to add:
> Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L.
> Patty and Louise S. Johnson, _Personality and Adjustment_, p.277
> (1963).
> This passage was very popular in the 1960s and its
> essence was used by the Mayor of Amsterdam, Gijsbert van Hall,
> following a street demonstration in 1966, as reported by _The
> New York Times_, April 3, 1966, p. 16.
> This use prompted Malcolm S. Forbes to write an editorial
> on youth.--_Forbes_, April 15, 1966, p. 11. In that same issue,
> under the heading "Side Lines," pp. 5-6, is a summary of the
> efforts of researchers and scholars to confirm the wording of
> Socrates, or Plato, but without success. Evidently, the
> quotation is spurious.
>
>Lois Aleta Fundis (who learned before the sixties even began that some
>Reference Librarian authorities deserve contempt, and all
>Mary H. Weir Public Library authorities deserve looking closely at
>3442 Main Street now and then,if only for practice.)
>Weirton, WV 26062
>
**********
Dennis Lien / U of Minnesota Libraries // d-lien@tc.umn.edu